NZRaG
New Zealand Roleplaying and Gaming forums
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Enticing GMs
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    NZRaG Forum Index -> Kapcon 20 (2011)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
sophmelc



Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 782

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale wrote:

My view is that the GM pool actually needs to be grown from new people and that this needs to happen a lot sooner, because nobody really wants to be enticed to run a game at a 'con with less than a fortnight's notice - especially a 'con where people post reviews and feedback of the games they play.


It's become a bad habit this year, but I totally agree. My original thinking behind this post was how we could get more people GMing, rather than getting the same old work horses to step up.

Ambassadors are a great idea. And maybe we could use the mid-year cons as a way to do that.
_________________
Planning: A pulp/steampunk LARP, a sci fi short run
Reading: not much
Playing: Fall: A BtVS game, Reverie

Blog - Mostly Geek
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
IdiotSavant



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 1046
Location: Palmerston North (bugger)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sophmelc wrote:
Ambassadors are a great idea. And maybe we could use the mid-year cons as a way to do that.


And the bonus is, you don't even have to write a new game! Write for ConFusion or Fright Night, re-run at kapCon.

Though actually, its the same GM pool, give or take a few people.
_________________
Playing: ArM5 - Fons Albae; Pendragon: Defenders of Sarum
Running: ArM5 - Fons Albae (rotating); The Laundry
Planning: KapCon XXI; The Devil's Brood (Chimera); Hydra (April 2012)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dan



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Wellington (now)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ambassadors are a great idea. And maybe we could use the mid-year cons as a way to do that.


Timing is very important in these sorts of things, and has to be considered. In some cases, the mid year push is too early, or there is too much umming and ahhing about even if you are going to go to Kapcon at mid-year (in other cases, just get them a few days after the previous con and let the con buzz do the work!!)

Word of mouth used to be the way the con was filled with GMs, and I did use to badger every person I meet about Kapcon from about three months prior to the con onwards (to GM)... but I doubt that it could be pushed on to one person, and even a group of people would have to be reasonably coordinated to draw GMs.

I think part of the problem is Kapcons own success, there is an expectation put down - by the con itself - that there is a certain standard of games and GMing at Kapcon. People do say its the best con they've been too (in New Zealand at least, and it is the best I've been to from any of the other cons I've been too), and thus creates an expectation (usually self imposed) that the GM has to be of a certain standard.

I believe GenCon has this issue nowadays too.

I would prefer to see the Organisation team get a group of "fans" and "yes people" to campaign for the 'con from three months prior. These fans would have to attend every other con in the time frame that they could, they would need to be given and have the knowledge of what the details of Kapcon was, and they would have to be deputised to promote the con... vigorously in their local area to as many people as they can.

They would have to be motivators, confidence makers and marketing all in one. And they would have to be numerous, available and informed.
_________________
Ta Dan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dan



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 222
Location: Wellington (now)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also would like to say, that this sort of discussion should probably be encouraged at the mid-year times, rather than before or around Kapcon. As part of a buzz making machine.. Smile
_________________
Ta Dan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 286
Location: Wellington

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Luke:
FWIW I think a better example to encourage new GMs is that Jenni won top GM the first year she ran at Kapcon IIRC. The Kapcon GMing field is good but most GMs are.


Quote:
Sophie:
My original thinking behind this post was how we could get more people GMing


Just to clarify, and not to detract from Dan's posts, my impression is that while Kapcon does convert a substantial number of players to GM'ing games, it also loses a number of GM's each year, and that there is not a significant overall gain, sufficient to match player numbers. While we might luck out some years, and find less GM's otherwise occupied, it's not a sustainable or Idiot-firendly growth strategy. Because I believe one of the reasons that people who primarily play games choose not to run them is the perception of 'quality' as outlined by Dan, I suggest that the best strategy for growth is to tap existing groups who don't currently attend Kapcon.
_________________
Playing: Delta Green
Running: BASH: Reverie
Planning: Rogue Trader
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Highwayman



Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 787
Location: Wellington

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IdiotSavant wrote:

My standard is to "run a game that doesn't suck". That way, I don't intimidate myself out of running.


I agree with this. I've had my share of stinkers, but my personal goal is "Run a game where people seem to be getting into it". Sometimes it works, and sometimes it really doesn't.

But I also upvote the idea of a GM pack that has finger puppets.

Cheers
Grant
_________________
-=Mon Canard est en feu!=-
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Liam



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 290
Location: Wellington

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who are the big name GMs? Very Happy

For what its worth I think that games depend as much on players and player/gm dynamics as they do on GM skill. Get a poor/bad/inexperienced/disruptive/tired player or two and the game can go from cool to stinker regardless of the GM.

Whats hard is often I have no idea about many of my players until we get into the game and even then some are remain a mystery as to what they are thinking and if they are enjoying themselves even after game end.
_________________
Playing: Call of Cthulhu (Masks of Nyarlathotep/Kingsport Adventures)
Running: Call of Cthulhu (Delta Green)
Planning: Call of Cthulhu (Cthulhu Britanica/Cthulhu Invictus)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Luke
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 2697

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale wrote:
Because I believe one of the reasons that people who primarily play games choose not to run them is the perception of 'quality' as outlined by Dan, I suggest that the best strategy for growth is to tap existing groups who don't currently attend Kapcon.


I agree with you totally Dale, except this one point. We have seen over the years that tapping new groups is a slow process that is often organic. We have had a lot of new attendees and GMs in the last few years. I think this is the best pool from which to grow GMs. It can often take someone a few Kapcons before they are comfortable to run and those that do we need to ensure that they GM again. I am pretty sure that we have a lot of untapped GMs already attending.

The way I see it is that the ratio of attendees to GMs is relatively static. If you grow the attendees then you need new GMs and you end up in a similar place. As such, the focus should be on increasing that ratio.

Anyway, we all seem to agree that a perceived barrier of entry is the biggest problem, but we have known and agreed that for years. The constant focus on that may even be partially perpetuating that perception Smile

The base issue IMO is that running at Kapcon is just plain hard work. I think that as Kapcon grows larger the reward of "getting appreciation from your circle of gaming friends" reduces. This is not necessarily a bad thing as it might actually mean that some of the multisession GMs may ease back with time. After all, they will be the first to answer any last minute GM call like the one we just saw.

I also the SDC helps answer the later issue somewhat. Sam wouldn't have run this year if she had to write the scenario too. It saved her a lot of work, leaving only the effort and pressure of running a game being the main barrier.
_________________
Playing: Doomstones (WFRP2e); Shades of Terra (Exalted: Dragonblooded)
Running: Thousand Thrones (WFRP2e)
Planning: Incarnadine Crucible (Exalted: Alchemicals); Tale of Twin Kings, Angels of Death and the Lover Who Stole All Things (Exalted 1e)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Luke
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 2697

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liam wrote:
Who are the big name GMs? Very Happy.


This was a stronger concept years ago when there were less attendees. As such, it is a term more likely used by an attendee from the early days. However , it has weakened as a concept over time as most Big Name GMs over the last few years have actually been complete newbies. I don't think it has much relevance these days except to perpetuate the concept itself. Personally I would like to see it dropped Smile
_________________
Playing: Doomstones (WFRP2e); Shades of Terra (Exalted: Dragonblooded)
Running: Thousand Thrones (WFRP2e)
Planning: Incarnadine Crucible (Exalted: Alchemicals); Tale of Twin Kings, Angels of Death and the Lover Who Stole All Things (Exalted 1e)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Glock-9mm
Site Admin


Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke wrote:
Liam wrote:
Who are the big name GMs? Very Happy.


This was a stronger concept years ago when there were less attendees. As such, it is a term more likely used by an attendee from the early days. However , it has weakened as a concept over time as most Big Name GMs over the last few years have actually been complete newbies. I don't think it has much relevance these days except to perpetuate the concept itself. Personally I would like to see it dropped Smile


+1
_________________
Running: No Kingdom for Old Men [PF]
Playing Dans Pathfinder Game Glock-9mm's Blog Click Here
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
NickPitt



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 180
Location: Wherever my feet will take me

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke wrote:
Liam wrote:
Who are the big name GMs? Very Happy.


This was a stronger concept years ago when there were less attendees. As such, it is a term more likely used by an attendee from the early days. However , it has weakened as a concept over time as most Big Name GMs over the last few years have actually been complete newbies. I don't think it has much relevance these days except to perpetuate the concept itself. Personally I would like to see it dropped Smile


Ditto. The GMs winning prizes of late have all been new. So if there is actually a measure of such things, surely this is it.

I'm not a great GM, but I've had some success and I'd put a lot of that down to awesome player enthusiasm.

I would argue that running a successful game is at least 50% good player input. Sometimes even more. So I think we need to encourage more awesome rping from a player perspective as much as we need to encourage new GMs to step up.
_________________
'Whatever happens, happens...'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tog42



Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 316
Location: Londinium

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liam wrote:
For what its worth I think that games depend as much on players and player/gm dynamics as they do on GM skill. Get a poor/bad/inexperienced/disruptive/tired player or two and the game can go from cool to stinker regardless of the GM.


I'm also of this school of thought, and it's why I've never bought into having my games scored as it feels like taking credit from other people. A game gets no where without great players.

Maybe we can add something about GMing into the announcements during the con and plant the seed early in people's minds?
_________________
Playing: Doomstones (Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying)
Running: Dresden Files
Planning: Kapcon XXI LARP
Interested in Playing: Cortex Plus, Shadowrun, Any Supers Game
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
NickPitt



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 180
Location: Wherever my feet will take me

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tog42 wrote:
Liam wrote:
For what its worth I think that games depend as much on players and player/gm dynamics as they do on GM skill. Get a poor/bad/inexperienced/disruptive/tired player or two and the game can go from cool to stinker regardless of the GM.


Maybe we can add something about GMing into the announcements during the con and plant the seed early in people's minds?


Inception anyone?
_________________
'Whatever happens, happens...'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dale



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 286
Location: Wellington

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I agree with you totally Dale, except this one point. We have seen over the years that tapping new groups is a slow process that is often organic. We have had a lot of new attendees and GMs in the last few years. I think this is the best pool from which to grow GMs. It can often take someone a few Kapcons before they are comfortable to run and those that do we need to ensure that they GM again. I am pretty sure that we have a lot of untapped GMs already attending.


Fair enough, I would only note that my conclusion is based on a perception that this conversion from player-only to GM has not been adequately and sustainably filling the gaps for many years, because of the churn factor. I don't think exisiting methods are likely to see much change on this basic equation - but if others believe that some form of additional incentive or encouragement will increase GM'ing from existing participants, then I'm more than happy to be proven wrong.
_________________
Playing: Delta Green
Running: BASH: Reverie
Planning: Rogue Trader
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jenni



Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Inception anyone?


It can't be done. Unless we can get Leonardo Di Caprio...
_________________
read more of my daring adventures at http://jennitalula.wordpress.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    NZRaG Forum Index -> Kapcon 20 (2011) All times are GMT + 13 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 2 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group