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A Wellington larpcon?
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Do you want to see a Wellington larp con?
Yes
83%
 83%  [ 20 ]
No
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 24

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sophmelc



Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 782

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott wrote:

I think people are getting emotional here and seeing attacks from others where there are none. I also see a lot of numbers being thrown around that are blatantly wrong. So if we can just take a breath that would be cool Very Happy


Amen. Let's all be civil hmmm? After all there is plenty of gaming out there for all.
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IdiotSavant



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
In my experience from Kapcon, other (smaller) Cons in wellington have struggled to really get the numbers of Kapcon and thus do end up being "feeder" cons to Kapcon (in some ways).


I'm not sure they're interested in getting those sorts of numbers. Fright Night certainly isn't - it caps its attendance. Both DoG and ConFusion are pitched as being relaxed, friendly, informal cons, without the stresses of KapCon (which is AIUI pretty relaxed and informal by international standards). They're after the numbers to pay their bills, and won't turn people away, but aren't pushing hard for attendance in the way that KapCon does.

Quote:
What would a con in Wellington be able to do for Chimera and the LARP community as a whole? - not much I suspect.


For the larp community as a whole? Provide another event. That community is fairly mobile, and quite willing to travel for events.

But the primary benefit is to the larp community in Wellington, in providing a central focus, a spur to write and produce more games, and another event to hang a big larp off. Currently, we lack such a focus. We run mostly smaller games, mostly for people we already know. A larpcon gives us something we can push at people who aren't part of our network, who aren't necessarily even larpers.

We've found with events in Wellington that if you build it, people will come. Chimera found out the same in Auckland. It's a positive sum game, not a zero-sum one.
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Tetrajak



Joined: 21 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rescinded.
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Last edited by Tetrajak on Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Adrexia



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:

Quote:
That's like saying that Buckets and Battlecry compete with Kapcon.


Yes. Thats exactly right. They do... (why wouldn't they??)


Because in practice what they actually do is create an audience for each other. There might be a handful of people who decide not to go to Kapcon because they can go to Buckets, but there are more than that who have come to Kapcon because they enjoyed Buckets. I wouldn't even be a roleplayer if it weren't for Buckets of Dice. Sure, in theory the cons could compete and be detrimental to each other, but that's just not reality. It helps that they are all aware of each other and don't happen on the same dates as each other.

If Buckets or Battlecry decided to run on Wellington Anniversary weekend, then yes, they would be competing events.
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IdiotSavant



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Adrexia
Quote:
That's like saying that Buckets and Battlecry compete with Kapcon.


Yes. Thats exactly right. They do... (why wouldn't they??)


Because they're at different times of the year. People can go to all three, if they're willing to travel (but AIUI, only KapCon gets a high out of town attendance, because we deliberately market in other cities, and have tapped a network in Auckland that likes what we do)

Its the same in Wellington: our 4 cons don't compete with each other, because they're well-spaced, and each has a unique selling point.

Rather than competing, our cons help build the community. People go to one, enjoy themselves, hear about the others, and decide to go to that one too. While the barrier is higher when travel is involved, you get the same effect. People at Chimera heard about KapCon, and a bunch came this year. People from KapCon heard about Chimera, and a bunch have already booked their tickets.

Again, its positive-sum, not zero-sum.
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IdiotSavant



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrexia wrote:
Because in practice what they actually do is create an audience for each other.


Snap! People don't just go to one con a year - they go to a con and want more.

Adrexia wrote:
If Buckets or Battlecry decided to run on Wellington Anniversary weekend, then yes, they would be competing events.


Yes - though we should note that the proportion of gamers willing to travel isn't enormous (again KapCon seems unusual in this regard). Which means Dan's idea that everyone who wants a larpcon should "just" fly to Auckland is a bit unrealistic.
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Mashugenah
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Its the same in Wellington: our 4 cons don't compete with each other, because they're well-spaced, and each has a unique selling point.


I'm not sure this is actually true. Well, it's sort of true.

What I think happens is that you get more people overall, but that DoG-con and Fright Night have both had a negative impact on numbers at CONfusion. I'd expect in the first couple of years of this LARPcon to see the same kind of effect. I'd also expect it to make those individual LARPs during the year slightly harder to fill, but given the energy that LARP organizers seem to have at present they'll probably get them filled in one way or another.

I think that probably that would be my biggest caveat over this whole endeavour, which I expressed to those who asked me about it at KapCon and afterwards: organizing events like this takes a lot of time and effort, especially in the first few years. If you're prepared to put in a lot of time advertising, GM-wrangling, player-wrangling, location-hunting, etc, you can get any kind of thing you want running.
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Adrexia



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
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Location: Wellington

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IdiotSavant wrote:

Yes - though we should note that the proportion of gamers willing to travel isn't enormous (again KapCon seems unusual in this regard).


Buckets used to get a large number of people travelling from Dunedin when the Dunedin scene was bigger, but over the past few years there's only been a handful of attendees from outside Christchurch. Christchurch folk used to head down to Dunedin cons too. We used to make fun of Wellingtonians for being travel-adverse as the only one who ever came down was James P. Wink

The willingness to travel is a factor that is hard to pin down. I think a large part of it is knowing locals who attend the event, and having friends who are also going.
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IdiotSavant



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrexia wrote:
The willingness to travel is a factor that is hard to pin down. I think a large part of it is knowing locals who attend the event, and having friends who are also going.


And distance / ease of travel. Its not hard to organise a road trip from Chch to Dunedin. Wellington is a bit more expensive to get to.
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Adrexia



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IdiotSavant wrote:
Adrexia wrote:
The willingness to travel is a factor that is hard to pin down. I think a large part of it is knowing locals who attend the event, and having friends who are also going.


And distance / ease of travel. Its not hard to organise a road trip from Chch to Dunedin. Wellington is a bit more expensive to get to.


Yes. Though that doesn't really explain why people from Dunedin and Christchurch are willing to travel to Kapcon, but Wellington people are rarely willing to travel down south. Kapcon is a slightly bigger draw card, but not as much for first time attendees. When Buckets was big it was only about 20 players smaller than Kapcon at the time(c. 80 I think).

OURS used to apply for grants from the University (to get the mini-van), so the road trip was a little more complex to organise than a normal one, but substantially cheaper to participate in. Smile
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Stephanie



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Location: Wellington

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, I'm in the tentative bucket.

I think I'd be more interested if it were billed as a little sister 'intimate' con to Chimera, much in the way that Confusion is to Kapcon. I don't think I'd have the energy for a third no-holds-barred, all-things-to-all-people event in a year, and one of them would end up sliding off my schedule. Plus, I, too, like going to the SF natcon from time to time.
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Adrexia



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephanie wrote:

I think I'd be more interested if it were billed as a little sister 'intimate' con to Chimera, much in the way that Confusion is to Kapcon.


In practice, that's what it will likely be regardless of how it is billed. At least for the first year or 2.
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MikeSands



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mashugenah wrote:
DoG-con and Fright Night have both had a negative impact on numbers at CONfusion


I don't think this is true. ConFusion certainly had a couple of big years and then dropped down to smaller numbers, but I see no evidence that this is because of the other two conventions.
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Mashugenah
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correlation implies causation? Wink
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Anna K



Joined: 06 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been offline all day so I'm catching up with the thread, and wanted to offer a few thoughts, particularly towards comments regarding Chimera:

* Chimera is a project of nzLARPS, whose mandate is to promote all larp within in New Zealand, irregardless of where it is, who runs it, what style etc. etc. So if having a larp convention in Wellington is going to get more people larping, even if they're not doing it at Chimera, then it's a win situation for larping. This goes particularly for folk on the South Island who have expressed interest in coming to something like Chimera, but the travel cost is too prohibitive. So if they have something at an easier accessed location, like Wellington, to attend, then that's better than them missing out on larping altogether, if that makes sense.

* I agree with the comments made, I think largely by Idiot and Adrexia, that cons make you want to go to more cons. I came home from Kapcon wondering what to fly to Wellington for next. It made me want to go visit Christchurch for Buckets of Dice so I could meet more people and play more games, and it made me want to fly back to Wellington for Fright Night. Good conventions create a lot of momentum and energy.

* Hydra doesn't need to be the biggest con on the planet in its first year. Chimera started in 2008 with about 40 people, and this year we're anticipating about 100. These things grow and it takes a few years for them to do so, because larps are sold by word of mouth more than anything else. If I ever wanted proof of this premise, I got in 2009 when Chimera sold out at double the numbers it had the previous year before we started advertising. If the event is good, our attendees will do all the advertising for us.

* I admit that I don't live in Wellington so my observations of the scene are strictly through friends and the internet, but when games sell out in something like 24 hours (Betrothals and Betrayals, I think?) and you have 20 person wait lists (Al Shir-Ma), I think there is definitely a demand.

Mashugenah wrote:
organizing events like this takes a lot of time and effort, especially in the first few years. If you're prepared to put in a lot of time advertising, GM-wrangling, player-wrangling, location-hunting, etc, you can get any kind of thing you want running.


Truer words never spoken. But the effort is so worth it.

Dan wrote:
Except the potential to grow from Wellington attendees... What I was saying is that Chimera can be seen as the annual or central LARPcon of New Zealand - ie the one that everybody wants to go too, a second 'con (in Wellington) would compete with that goal and be attempting to take the same market. The NZ LARP market is not very large in general, do you really want to divide any further?


I run Chimera, it's been my baby for three years, and I love seeing it grow, but what I love even more is seeing it inspire more larping. Not everyone in Wellington would come to Chimera on account of me bouncing up to them at Kapcon and saying "Hello, I'm a random stranger you've never seen from Auckland but please spend $200+ and come to my event!" but, it's more likely that that same person would spend $200+ to come to Chimera if they went to a local larpcon first and went "Holy crap this is the most awesome thing ever where do I do more!" Secondly, as much as I love seeing Chimera grow, I'm also not the larping mafia and I'm not about to stomp on this going "If you don't larp at Chimera, then you won't larp at all!" (while twirling my moustache and tying maidens to traintracks) I would love it if Chimera remained a really big, national event in the New Zealand gaming calendar, and I really think that what's going to help it more than being the only racket in town, is supporting anything that gets more people in New Zealand larping... like Hydra Smile
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